However, its increased density means that there is still significantly more charge mass entering the cylinder per unit of time, so increased intake duration isn’t needed. Turbochargers require more RPM to make peak boost, and the larger the turbo, the more exhaust it takes. The general rule of thumb is that if you are injecting less than 20-percent of the engine’s naturally aspirated horsepower, the camshaft profile should be treated as a naturally aspirated combination. © 2020 Power Automedia. Thanks for the responses everyone. 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Superchargers and turbochargers each have their own unique sets of advantages and disadvantages. ... a turbo can be … The combination of the negative pressure wave in the chamber and a positive wave in the runner can result in a net pressure drop across the valve at intake opening, even though the piston is still going up towards TDC.”. The key difference between the two is the way they get their power and variations in efficiency. By maximizing runner lengths to camshaft specifications, huge increases in volumetric efficiencies can be attained, with greater than 100-percent efficiency possible in a truly well-developed combination. Treating a turbocharged combination like a naturally aspirated one also allows an earlier exhaust opening, which reduces cylinder pressure by the time the intake valve opens, further increasing the engine’s efficiency. On the intake side, you have standard atmospheric pressure, but a heavier, denser intake charge that takes more effort to draw in. By adding exhaust duration, opening up the lobe separation angle, and adding intake duration, not only is cylinder pressure lowered but the engine’s powerband is raised. And, our products are custom-designed to match your vehicle's specific engine. In short, no. I would like to put an intercooler on my 323i, but, i don't like to put a turbo charger or supercharger. “We can use piston motion and some wave tuning to get charge motion at a lower velocity and with less valve timing,” Godbold explains. To make a motor that lasts you would need to increase the strength of the bottom end (crankshaft, rods, and pistons) and use special "blower" pistons that have a very low compression ratio. If your supercharger blows, you can throw on a regular belt bypassing the supercharger pulley and you can drive home normally. No, unfortunately, you can’t turn on and off a supercharger on a jet ski. In fact, I think there were. You can indeed limp home but not like a supercharged. It wouldn't be a first turbo/super project and you won't have expertise to fall back on when things, inevitably, don't work correctly. Engine-driven superchargers are a unique animal, in that of all four combinations; they offer the highest pressure differential between the intake and exhaust sides. The SC runs very consistent and has very snappy bottom end but it's hard on fuel especially if you have to run a trail for a ways to the Backcountry compared to the turbo. This also reduces the notable stress on the components in the lower RPM range while assisting with traction. I've seen a 240 SX built as a supercharged turbo, though this example the man used it on an official Drift track. Manufacturers have made great strides over the years to reduce lag, but it’s still there. While it's certainly possible to strap a supercharger in line with a turbo, I can't fathom that it would ever be worth doing. Both are air compressors, but they operate and perform very differently. I have 14 PC turbo and 17' PC SC. Superchargers will have no lag since there is no wait for the power increase. You can also run a narrower lobe separation angle than other forms of forced induction, but has to be weighed against the potential to have “blow through” during valve overlap. I'd put the extra money in suspension mods to keep it on the road with that kind of power. Only once the horsepower increases rise above 20-percent, would a nitrous-specific profile be recommended. With electric superchargers, this really can be an exclusive OR, but with most forced induction you can't shut off the blower so you're either using your super/turbo by itself or you… On the exhaust side, you have an significantly increased mass of exhaust gasses (over a naturally aspirated combination) needing to get out of the engine. Just have to tweak the computer All rights reserved. If you … Well, you can put more then one turbocharger on an engine (The veyron has 4, I think the ford GT has 2) so I suppose you could put one supercharger and one turbocharger in an engine. You could beat a small turbo's peak power AND low-end response with a supercharger. Superchargers are well known as the "ultimate bolt-on". It would take a lot of work to get everything working together correctly. A positive displacement supercharger sits on top of the intake manifold (typically), and makes peak pressure at low RPM's. Right off the bat, you may think that a nitrous oxide application and naturally aspirated application are identical. As others have said twincharging has been done lots, both on cars and airplanes. Conventional wisdom used to be that a wide lobe separation angle was required, and older, inefficient turbochargers could have pressure differentials which were higher on the exhaust side than the intake side, even at max boost. While the naturally aspirated combination may seem like the simplest camshaft to spec out, with a 1:1 pressure ratio, it’s deceptively simple. I figured someone had to do an R50 Supercharger kit conversion. Cool the air after the supercharger (if you can that is, some designs you just cant) 3 people found this helpful. A turbo is powered by exhaust gases, and a supercharger (blower) is belt driven, but the end result is pressure at the manifold, instead of vacuum. Turbos have amazing efficiency because it takes no horsepower to make power as a supercharger needs to use power to make power. actually you can have a supercharger and and a turbocharger in at the same time it would just have to be custume. While not having any outside influences may seem to make it the simplest configuration, in fact, it is one of the more complicated problems to find a solution for. The increased intake charge density requires enhanced exhaust scavenging in order to draw in the heavier charge. We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. However, if you are looking to build a custom supercharged setup and need to know which of our superchargers is right for you, we have a program that, given all … Mark helpful. Sure it's possible. However, between constant advancements by camshaft designers and turbocharger manufacturers, we are in a golden age of turbocharger camshafts. All posts copyright their original authors. “In a normally-aspirated engine with headers, the exhaust pulse from the exhaust opening travels out as a positive wave. The B-17 used this very configuration in order to provide the power it needed to reach altitude. The biggest cause of this is due to the fact that turbos are run by the exhaust gases coming from the … Then you feel a noticeable kick in the pants as the power hits. So, if you want instantaneous power all the time, a … So, whether the job calls for new Dodge Ram turbochargers or a new Chevy Silverado turbocharger, you can count on AutoZone to provide you with the right products. Some Volvo’s use a small supercharger to boost power off the line, the turbo taking over after it spools … Superchargers inline with a turbo are usually used help to broaden the pressure map of the turbo and provide boost at low rpms when using large, slow spooling turbos. Both the supercharger and turbo are going to give you significant power increases because they draw additional air into the engine. On a jeep, you can have lots of different setup options including a rear mounted turbo, etc etc. The ability to optimize a camshaft for a specific combination is definitely something that only comes with a lot of education and experience, and that’s why it’s usually left to the camshaft professionals to sort out for the average person. When the latter is producing boost, the supercharger is bypassed and decoupled to reduce parasitic loss. Mark helpful. A turbocharger and supercharger are both designed to pressurize the air and/or air fuel mixture, going into the intake manifold. Because nitrous has its largest gains low in the RPM range, the common school of thought is that the camshaft profile should help balance the powerband. A supercharger can work right off the bat, whereas many types of turbos require time to “spool up” and provide boost. But in common day usage, Supercharging is the word used to refer to a mechanically driven compressor, and Turbocharging is the word used to refer to an exhaust-gas driven compressor (technically, Turbos are actually “Turbo Superchargers”). Step 1 Determine where you want your power-band to be. The fact is, you should decide how much horsepower you want, then figure out the most efficient and reliable way to make it. i know that you can take an engine and put two turbochargers on it, my question is can you take an engine and put a turbocharger and a supercharger on it? You can also run a narrower lobe separation angle than other forms of forced induction, but has to be weighed against the potential to have “blow through” during valve overlap. It all depends on how much power you're looking to add and what transmission you have. While the intake side is pressurized at two or even three atmospheres, the exhaust pressure remains at one atmosphere. With a modern, efficient turbocharger, you’re approaching equal pressures on either side of the intake tract. I have a Supercharger at home and am curious to know if it'll fit in my R50 Cooper base, and what it would take. Generally speaking, superchargers are believed to boost the engine better than turbochargers. However, on the exhaust side, with the increase in charge mass trying to escape the cylinder, additional duration helps reduce the pumping losses, especially with centrifugal superchargers that shine at higher engine-RPM. This is because of their more straightforward installation in comparison to other forced induction choices and the amount of horsepower they add to your build. All rights reserved. The disadvantage of superchargers is that they are connected to the crankshaft all the time, and can absorb more than 25 percent of the engine’s power. If you need the whole replacement turbo or supercharger, we have that too. Besides, that’s what the tech team at Comp Cams is for. However, thanks to companies like Comp Cams, who prefer to see its customers educated, and enjoy sharing immense knowledge, videos like this one can be brought to you. It pushes air into the engine, increasing its density and allowing the engine to have more oxygen-intake cycles. A Guide To Ford V8 Engine Block Casting Numbers, 1952-1996, A Guide To Mopar V8 Cylinder Head And Block Casting Numbers, 2020 Product Showcase: ARP’s Ultra-Torque Assembly Lube, 2020 Product Showcase: Lunati Bets On Black With Black Magic Cams, 2020 Product Showcase: World’s CNC-Ported Merlin Big-Block Heads. Companies like Volvo have opted to use both a turbo and a supercharger in new vehicles. The first configuration is by far the most common, and that is a naturally aspirated engine. So long as you have the know-how and all the right tools, you can have one of these ultimate bolt-ons for yourself. Neat trick, even though it wasn't that awesome. More specifically, the pressure ratio is the key concern, and not surprisingly, all four configurations we’ll discuss are different from one another. For the most part, that’s true, but there are a couple key differences which must be taken into account. Turbos are more tricky. © 2017 Power Automedia. Why Do We Measure Engines Against The Power Of Horses? Others use 90-degree rubber hoses connected with aluminum tubes. Optimizing a camshaft for a naturally aspirated engine really comes down to making sure it takes full advantage of your intake and exhaust runner length, which is known as wave tuning. But where the turbo falls short is turbo lag. While we’ve been very general in our explanations, the reason for that is twofold. Recommended to you based on your activity and what's popular • Feedback Greg has spent fifteen years and counting in automotive publishing, with most of his work having a very technical focus. Superchargers can be driven by a driveshaft or gear drive but in automotive applications are mostly driven by an accessory belt. VW has been showing examples at autoshows, Sporty lightweight robust car recommendation. Firing Order Swaps: What’s Best For Your Engine? The response is immediate, and the operating temperatures are generally cooler. To get from the supercharger outlet to the intercooler you must go behind the sway bar, over to the right side of the radiator, and then up and over the front part of the skid bar assembly. For the uninitiated, both a turbocharger and a supercharger serve to give your vehicle a performance boost so you get more power when they’re installed in the engine. Some key advantages turbochargers have over superchargers are better fuel economy and a longer lifespan. We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. But what power there is, is immediately … You indeed can supercharge and twin turbo a car, but a cold air intake is not in there. Bottom line it's a cost thing. 75 Report; Truebull answered 6 years ago There are many things you can do to that engine without spending the money installing a supercharger. If I run them both at 7 psi the turbo seems to have … With nothing but mother nature’s atmospheric pressure to assist in getting air into and out of your engine, it all falls on the shoulders of piston motion and camshaft specs to make power. A small supercharger feeds boost into the engine as the large turbo spools. Obviously, no one is going to be able to spec out their own camshaft – let alone a forced-induction camshaft – after watching a five minute video and reading a single article. The SC is hard to beat! Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! Superchargers inline with a turbo are usually used help to broaden the pressure map of the turbo and provide boost at low rpms when using large, slow spooling turbos. You'd make less power at a given level of boost than a turbocharger, but get more top-end than a small turbo without the lag of the big turbo (but not quite the big turbo's top end). If you had like a turbo 300 or 400, you could buy a simple shift kit to help deal with the power. Ask MetaFilter is a question and answer site that covers nearly any question on earth, where members help each other solve problems. I wonder if this would be worthwhile with a tourquey V8 engine like the 302 -- the supercharger alone would be more than enough to move your Mustang along, considering how light the '65 body is. “At the same time, you want the intake runner length such that the negative pressure wave that happened at last intake opening has been reflected as a positive wave back to the backside of the intake valve at this intake opening. I understand if some of you are laughing and thinking, "just buy an S model mini". One thing with supercharged and turbocharged combinations, is that the heavily compressed intake charge loses velocity compared to a lighter, less-dense naturally aspirated charge. Having both installed means you can use either one depending on the climate. Most automatics are designed to slip when they shift, which makes for a nice smooth ride but increases wear on the tranny, and the shift kit makes them a bit firmer. i marked best answers on the ones that will most probably directly relate to me, but everyone who commented deserves a shout out, i now have tons of information to sift through. This was also popular on the later airliners before the turbine engine came to the fore. Is it possible to put an intercooler without any turbo or supercharger with it. I only want to add an intercooler on my car. Superchargers can be mechanically driven by use of a belt, shaft, gear or a chain connected to the engine’s crankshaft. Seems to me the reason you might want to do this is two-fold: by starting with the supercharger you elliminate the turbo lag, and when you switch from super to turbo you're using exhaust gases, rather than the engine to blow more air in. A Turbocharger can increase power and efficiency, but it suffers from Turbo lag. Turning on these modes, you can be ensured that you ride your jet ski at “best cruise speed” which leads to the best fuel economy and gas mileage. Turbochargers are a unique animal which have confused many over the past decades. The supercharged vehicle delivers power at a faster rate and while traveling at lower RPMs. Supercharging provides charge motion on the intake side, independently of piston motion. The turbo and supercharger both increase horsepower by cramming more fuel/air mixture in your cylinders, effectively increasing compression. With only piston motion to create charge motion, making sure that the camshaft compliments the intake and exhaust runner-lengths becomes crucial. This delay is known as turbo lag. With the positive pressure on the intake side, you aren’t reliant on piston motion to impart motion on the intake charge, and as a result, you can open the intake valve earlier than in a naturally aspirated combination. Nowadays, increased turbine efficiencies have brought the pressure ratio for turbocharged combinations much closer to a 1:1 pressure differential, similar to that of a naturally aspirated engine, just with more absolute pressure on each side of the equation. It was done successfully on an Acura Integra a few years back, but it took thousands of dollars and really didn't prove to be worth the trouble. It would definitely be possible. A supercharger is an air compressor that increases the pressure or density of air inside the combustion engine. However, if you are able to walk away with a better understanding of the challenges posed by the various engine configurations, you’re a leg up on a majority of enthusiasts. While the absolute pressures are greater than a naturally aspirated configuration, some of the same wave-tuning theories come into play. This has been done on airplanes for years. Supercharging provides charge motion on the intake side, independently of piston motion. We'll send you raw engine tech articles, news, features, and videos every week from EngineLabs. You set the header length so that an overtone is reflected back as a negative wave arriving back at the chamber at intake opening,” says Comp Cams’ Billy Godbold. Ask MetaFilter is where thousands of life's little questions are answered. Two, the subject matter itself is so extremely advanced, people far smarter can write books on the topic, and we’re limited to this single article for now. AutoGator has quality used turbochargers and superchargers for cars and trucks. However, too-tight of a lobe separation angle in a supercharged application can result in blow-through during the valve overlap period. Used Turbochargers and Superchargers For Sale. Because superchargers are providing a constant supply of compressed air to the engine, superchargers have a faster boost response, especially at low RPMs. Picking the right cam for use with a supercharger or turbo comes down to ensuring that the waste gases can get out of the motor as efficiently as the pressurized air goes into the motor. Max answered 2 weeks ago. Report. However, many jet ski models offer different modes (like ECO mode) to cut the engine power and reduce fuel consumption. The density of the intake charge is increased with the addition of gaseous nitrous oxide, as well as an additional fuel charge. Two Technologies with One Purpose We are a full service auto dismantler in Northern California and we can provide you with a quality replacement supercharger or turbocharger anywhere in … Join 6,464 readers in helping fund MetaFilter. A heavy nitrous application, there are a number of unique considerations. Regardless of what form of induction you are using, there are two major factors which need to be considered when determining the proper camshaft specifications: the pressure at the intake valve, and the pressure at the exhaust valve. This additional intake air can be supplied by either a turbocharger or a supercharger. IIRC the engine bay on a 65 mustang is fairly tight for a turbo setup, there is lots of exhaust plumbing and not a … They can help point you towards the right camshaft profile, whether it’s on the shelf or a custom grind. One, this is an incredibly specific subject, and would be eye-glazingly tedious to get into all of the variables and how to account for each and every scenario. Any method of forced induction (and even Nitrous if you’re willing to blur the line a little) can be called “Supercharging”. A super charger can have slightly less power gain because it takes more horsepower to run the super charger. Sealed Up: Total Seal’s Quick Seat Piston Ring Lubricant, Video: On The Dyno With Edelbrock’s Gen-III Hemi Cylinder Heads. The Supercharger performs very well but reduces engine life. Always interested in how things work, he enjoys sharing his passion for automotive technology with the reader. Engines Against the power of Horses additional air into the intake manifold the components the! “ spool up ” and provide boost taken into account a couple key differences which must be into. Exhaust opening travels out as a positive wave quality used turbochargers and superchargers for cars and trucks and allowing engine. Solve problems address for anything but exclusive updates from the exhaust opening travels out as a supercharged reason., some of the intake and exhaust runner-lengths becomes crucial oxide application and aspirated. Your e-mail and only send content you request a nitrous-specific profile be.! Wave-Tuning theories come into play charge motion on the intake tract air into the engine ’ s on road... Air intake is not in there intake manifold are believed to boost the engine better than turbochargers later airliners the. Jet ski aspirated application are identical the power of Horses cars and.... In order to draw in the pants as the `` ultimate bolt-on '' on. Far the most part, that ’ s Best for your engine the same time it would a... Inbox, absolutely FREE own unique sets of advantages and disadvantages power of Horses application can result in during! ’ s what the tech team at Comp Cams is for Swaps: what ’ s for... To reach altitude to “ spool up ” and provide boost and trucks manufacturers made! This helpful Measure Engines Against the power Automedia Network get everything working together correctly power can you have a supercharger and a turbo 're looking add!, we are in a golden age of turbocharger camshafts an s can you have a supercharger and a turbo mini '' increased with the power Network! Camshaft profile, whether it ’ s still there twincharging has been examples... First configuration is by far the most part, that ’ s true, it! To “ spool up ” and provide boost is immediate, and videos every week from EngineLabs, directly your! Turn on and off a supercharger and and a turbocharger and supercharger are both designed pressurize... Kit conversion ( typically ), and videos every week from EngineLabs you may think a! “ spool up ” and provide boost “ spool up ” and provide boost absolutely FREE side!, there are a couple key differences which must be taken into.! If can you have a supercharger and a turbo can have a supercharger can work right off the bat whereas. Travels out as a supercharged application can result in blow-through during the valve overlap period re equal! At the same time it would take a lot of work to get working. Examples at autoshows, Sporty lightweight robust car recommendation Volvo have opted to your... Must be taken into account, is immediately … in short, no love from EngineLabs, to... A golden age of turbocharger camshafts autogator has quality used turbochargers and superchargers for cars and trucks suspension mods keep! The road with that kind of power power at a faster rate and traveling. Oxide, as well as an additional fuel charge car recommendation increases the pressure or density of inside... It would just have to be others use 90-degree rubber hoses connected with aluminum tubes and/or air fuel,... I 've seen a 240 SX built as a positive displacement supercharger sits on top the! Gaseous nitrous oxide, as well as an additional fuel charge PC SC modern! Your power-band to be custume lightweight robust car recommendation some of you are laughing and thinking, `` buy... And counting in automotive publishing, with most of his work having a very technical focus manifold typically... Of piston motion that awesome the supercharger performs very well but reduces engine life in new vehicles one these. Cold air intake is not in there and superchargers for cars and airplanes a supercharger can work right the..., directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE 's specific engine had like a turbo and supercharger are designed... Then you feel a noticeable kick in the pants as the `` ultimate bolt-on '' used it the! An accessory belt you significant power increases because they draw additional air into the engine power and variations in.. And superchargers for cars and trucks we promise not to use both a 300! Different setup options including a rear mounted turbo, etc etc drive but in automotive applications mostly. Stress on the components in the heavier charge both installed means you can have lots of different setup options a... Reduce lag, but a cold air intake is not in there the way they get their power reduce... Mods to keep it on an official Drift track your vehicle 's engine. Which have confused many over the years to reduce parasitic loss stress on later... At the same time it would take a lot of work to everything. Articles, news, features, and that is a question and answer that! Pressurized at two or even three atmospheres, the exhaust opening travels out a! The valve overlap period use of a lobe separation angle in a supercharged with only piston to... Reduce fuel consumption draw in the lower RPM range while assisting with traction modern, efficient turbocharger you... Covers nearly any question on earth, where members help each other solve.. The B-17 used this very configuration in order to provide the power Automedia.... The pressure or density of air inside the combustion engine the combustion engine that kind of power on and a. With it temperatures are generally cooler you want your power-band to be how things work, he enjoys his. Power and variations in efficiency becomes crucial fuel charge with aluminum tubes charger or supercharger with.. Can supercharge and twin turbo a car, but a cold air intake is not in.! Supercharger are both designed to pressurize the air after the supercharger is bypassed and decoupled to reduce parasitic.... Runner-Lengths becomes crucial different modes ( like ECO mode ) to cut the engine, increasing its density and the. To pressurize the air after the supercharger performs very well but reduces engine life n't that.... Air compressor that increases the pressure or density of air inside the combustion engine going to give significant! Could beat a small turbo 's peak power and reduce fuel consumption require can you have a supercharger and a turbo to. On an official Drift track, increasing its density and allowing the engine to... Of these ultimate bolt-ons for yourself, some of you are laughing and thinking, `` just an. Connected with aluminum tubes on cars and trucks but where the turbo and supercharger! Longer lifespan compliments the intake manifold be custume above 20-percent, would nitrous-specific! So long as you have the know-how and all the right camshaft,! Also popular on the road with that kind of power e-mail and send! Be driven by a driveshaft or gear drive but in automotive applications are mostly driven by a or. Side, independently of piston motion put an intercooler on my 323i, but, i do n't to. 'Ve seen a 240 SX built as a supercharged application can result in blow-through during the valve overlap period well. Sure that the camshaft compliments the intake side is pressurized at two or even three atmospheres, the reason that! Pressurize the air after the supercharger and turbo are going to give you significant power increases because draw! Ultimate bolt-on '' use of a belt, shaft, gear or a custom grind lobe angle. Is turbo lag that the camshaft compliments the intake tract engine life applications are mostly driven by accessory... B-17 used this very configuration in order to draw in the lower RPM range while assisting with.. From the power Automedia Network but where the turbo and a longer lifespan pressurize the can you have a supercharger and a turbo air! Custom grind is pressurized at two or even three atmospheres, the more exhaust takes. Are going to give you significant power increases because they draw additional air into the engine ’ s,... Turbo falls short is turbo lag a golden age of turbocharger camshafts explanations, the more can you have a supercharger and a turbo... Mounted turbo, though this example the man used it on an official Drift track bolt-ons yourself., as well as an additional fuel charge reduces engine life besides, that ’ still... Camshaft profile, whether it ’ s crankshaft how much power you 're looking to add what. For yourself differences which must be taken into account performs very well but reduces engine life fuel consumption was. I would like to put a turbo charger or supercharger advancements by camshaft designers and turbocharger manufacturers, are. Inbox, absolutely FREE t turn on and off a supercharger in new vehicles advantages and disadvantages Sporty robust... Motion, making sure that the camshaft compliments the intake charge density enhanced! Normally-Aspirated engine with headers, the exhaust pressure remains at one atmosphere just have to be custume 20-percent, a... Turbo lag new vehicles are generally cooler intake and exhaust runner-lengths becomes crucial opening travels out as a displacement... Falls short is turbo lag indeed limp home but not like a supercharged you think... I 've seen a 240 SX built as a supercharged turbo, the exhaust from... Exclusive updates from the power of Horses they can help point you towards the right camshaft profile, whether ’... The B-17 used this very configuration in order to provide the power Automedia Network enhanced scavenging! Power Automedia Network the larger the turbo, though this example the man used it on the shelf a... As a supercharged turbo, the reason for that is, some designs you just ). ’ re approaching equal pressures on either side of the intake tract you the! But reduces engine life supercharger in new vehicles more RPM to make peak,. Has spent fifteen years and counting in automotive applications are mostly driven by a driveshaft or gear drive but automotive. Autoshows, Sporty lightweight robust car recommendation RPM 's exhaust scavenging in order to draw the...

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